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Oct. 20th, 2007 | 12:17 pm

So [info]benpeek is ranting a bit about rants about short stories, noting that people don't rant and scream as much about lousy short stories as they do about lousy episodes of, say, Doctor Who. (His point there might have been better made had he specified which of the many many versions of Doctor Who he was chatting about, but moving on.)

And I thought about this, and realized that yes, we do get mad at bad television shows and movies beyond all seeming reason, ranting and raving and even in one recent conversation of mine this week, threatening violent acts in relation to a recent terrible episode of Bionic Woman. We rant and rave and discuss or say we're going to refuse to watch TV or movies for awhile, although few of us actually reach that stage.

But with a short story? Not so much.

And I can think of one reason for this: deep down, or not so deep down, we're well aware of the vast amount of money spent to produce a really lousy hour of television or movie entertainment – compared to the almost negligible amount spent on writing a short story. The short story process works more or less like this:

1. Writers spend a few to several hours hammering out the details and the words of a specific short story, sometimes complaining to friends about the process. Now, admittedly, it's a bit difficult to calculate how much this time is worth and the money the writer might have made in the process – if the writer is a high paid attorney billing $500 an hour (not, in my experience, typical for most writers, but let's pretend more of us are called John Grisham) then, sure, this could be a fairly significant financial cost of time. Let's say $10,000, because I'm in one of those grumpy sorts of moods where nobody is paying me enough for the time I'm spending on these short stories. Add in another $5000 for the time spent by friends critiquing the story – sure, they haven't spent as much time as the writer has, but on the other hand, they have sense not to be writers, so they're probably financially more valuable than you are.

2. Short story gets sent to editors and starts the acceptance/rejection process. Let's say a nice average of 8 rejections to every 1 acceptance for any given short story; editors don't need to spend much time rejecting that one story (before the editors on my friends list start to howl, yes, yes, I know some of you do spend significant time on your rejection letters, but quite a few editors out there just don't have the time and don't bother.) The purchasing editor makes various changes and the story is paid for. Outside of a very few very limited markets in the U.S. (The New Yorker and The Atlantic, and I'm blanking on any others), most writers will receive anywhere from $25 to $1000 for a short story. Throw in $1000 for the editor's time spent on that particular story – ok, $2000, and the costs of printing and/or webhosting and/or podcasting – I'll again be overly generous and say $5000 (again, for that particular short story – and if production costs are higher I will guarantee the market is printing other things within that production costs.)

We've spent, on a generous budget, about $18,000 to produce this story. Let's round it up and say $20,000.

The typical budget for a television episode?

$500,000 and up. The budget for a single episode of ER is around $15 million now.

The typical budget for a movie? $1.5 million and way, way, way up. And the number of people involved? Far, far beyond the people involved in producing any short story – even at The New Yorker.

Even on the amateur level, filmmaking can be a major investment – pop over to [info]newbabel's journal where he occasionally talks about everything that he had to go through just to create a short trailer for his film.

So when we see an extraordinarily stupid or lousy or just plain boring television show or movie, I don't think we're not just reacting to the other stupidity of said show: we're also reacting, on some deep level, to the utter waste of that much money. This is money that could have been handed over to us to buy utterly cool things, or solve poverty, or whatever. Instead, it was funneled into junk.

So I think that on some level, that's what we're responding to – and why short stories just don't generate that kind of passion and rage. Because they just don't involve the same amount of money.

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Comments {20}

Gayle Madwin

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from: [info]queerbychoice
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 04:30 pm (UTC)
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Actually, I think that at least for me, it's more because if I'm not enjoying a short story, I can always skim to the end and find out whether it ever redeems itself, whereas if I'm not enjoying a TV show, I can't pass a properly well-informed and final negative judgment upon it unless I waste an entire hour of my life.

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 04:55 pm (UTC)
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Huh. I never thought of that because I always finish a short story -- it's only been in the last few years that I've even be able to stop finishing all of the books and novels I pick up. Then again, I read fairly fast, so that might be it.

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Speaks With Fingers

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from: [info]technoshaman
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 04:33 pm (UTC)
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I think it's about time, too. A crappy short story will waste five, ten, fifteen minutes of your time. You might burn a whole hour if it's novella-length. A bad TV ep will blow at least half an hour, if not a full hour, plus it's guaranteed to wipe the whole timeslot, because of the nature of television... you've blocked out that hour of your life and now it's gone (unless you have some... short stories?! to hand...) where if you run into a stinker story you can just flip to the next one and keep going. Worse yet movies because you've not just invested the time of the movie but transport to the theatre (or even best case the queue slot in Netflix and the time getting it to and from the mailbox)...

And too a show or a movie has hype, and you've built up expectations. The only hype a short story gets is landing a Hugo or Nebula, and then you already *know* it's good. Or at least that the other fans think it's good. Other than that, it's just a book of short stories; you might know the editor's reputation, and have some small expectation, but you might not. There's no background. No breathless anticipation.

And there's a subtle aspect of time and money. Any schmoe can rewrite a story in a few hours and make it better. If the film sucks, it'll be years before it's set to rights. If an episode sucks, fuggeddabowdit. You're not going back and doing it again, EVAR.

So. That's my take on it. YMMV, IANAL, EIEIO.

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 05:02 pm (UTC)
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And yet another reason to miss the great SciFiction.com site, no longer with us, since that site did hype speculative fiction short stories. I'd say that some writers do generate short story expectations -- at least for me -- but your point is well taken. (Although I'd disagree with the "any schmoe can rewrite a story in a few hours and make it better..." I've got a short story sitting on my hard drive right now that defies that description. Three rewrites and it's still a piece of crap that is about to go into permanent burial in my hard drive with no hope of resurrection.)

Then again, I also search out short stories and fiction in general on my own. These days, I rarely watch a TV show unless people have urged me to do so. Movies...well, I like the whole thing of going out to a movie and settling down with Raisinets or popcorn and a soda and watching, alone or with a group, and I do go to movies even when I know they'll be bad, because I do enjoy the fun of picking apart the film afterwards.

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Speaks With Fingers

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from: [info]technoshaman
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 05:42 pm (UTC)
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Aaaah, you like MST3K'ing. I don't have the stomach for the carnage, myself.

Hmmm. I have a though involving MST3K and your dying story there, but I don't know whether it would qualify as torture or a brilliant idea...

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 02:56 pm (UTC)
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I actually have thought of MSTKing this story, with editorial comments from me, and sending it out as more of a joke. I'm not sure it can even be saved that way, but it's a thought.

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Speaks With Fingers

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from: [info]technoshaman
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 04:00 pm (UTC)
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Better than just bit-bucketing the thing, I'd say.... besides, you might get some pointers....

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 04:02 pm (UTC)
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Or I could end up making people think that I have a very, very troubled mind after they read the nasty comments I make about my own work....

But I do abandon a lot of stories when they clearly aren't just working or I can't remember why I started to write them in the first place. The joy of computers is that they can stay in the hard drive, and if I'm feeling stuck, I can then review them later.

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Rich

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from: [info]dragonbane
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 05:18 pm (UTC)
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It's relationship-building. The TV shows that get ranted about are the shows for which people have already formed relationships to the characters. Very rarely will you hear ranting about a pilot episode of a show, unless it is based on characters from a different show (remakes like Bionic Woman and BSG, or spin-offs like Angel or Frasier).

Short stories don't tend to be serialized anymore, but I suspect they got ranted about back when they were...

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 02:57 pm (UTC)
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Now that thought I like: we get angry at shows because in some ways the characters and shows have become loved ones, and we expect something from them.

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 03:06 pm (UTC)
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I like this because it also explains why the very few rants about books out there that are operating on the same level as the television/movie rants are the books that exist in serial format -- Harry Potter, George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, even the Laurel K. Hamilton books...

Although of course this doesn't explain movie ranting. But perhaps we're building up some sort of relationship through the trailers and posters. Advertising as relationship building.

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Hummingwolf

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from: [info]hummingwolf
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 08:31 pm (UTC)
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I agree with others that it's largely about time invested in watching the show or movie. At least with a short story, it's easy enough to skim over the dull parts, or to go back to the confusing parts and ask, "Am I going crazy or did that bit there just not make any sense at all? What size truck could I drive through that plot hole?"

Then again, not only are bad movies and TV shows a waste of somebody's money, they're also a waste of multiple people's talent. It's similar to rock non-star Peter Himmelman and the music business: Yet there's no stopping him, even if he's convinced that the difference between "dreaming a dream and pursuing a dream is that the pursuit involves dragging a lot of people down with you."

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Hummingwolf

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from: [info]hummingwolf
date: Oct. 20th, 2007 08:33 pm (UTC)
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(Though I should make it clear here that I heart Peter Himmelman's music with a big old heart, even if he's never had an actual hit.)

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 02:59 pm (UTC)
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Since I watch so many shows and movies on DVD these days, my initial response to that was "reverse" and "fast forward." I usually only reread books and stories that I like.

But yes, with movies and television shows (and I guess ongoing attempts to create a travelling rock band) you are wasting the time and effort of more people, and that right there probably accounts for some of the outrage.

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Ben Peek

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from: [info]benpeek
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 02:56 am (UTC)
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all dr who. i was referring to all of it!

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 03:00 pm (UTC)
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IF you were also referring to Christopher Eccleston, then I'm giving all of your maple sugar candy to [info]girliejones at World Con :)

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Meander

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from: [info]meandering
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 07:52 am (UTC)
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I think there are two other aspects that are going on with this.

1) Reading for leisure has always been a fringe activity. Not just now, it's been that way always.

2) Radio, television and movies appeal more directly to the emotions of people, thus people get more worked up about them.

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 03:04 pm (UTC)
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1. But some of the movies/television shows that people get so worked up about are also fringe activities -- take Doctor Who as a primary example of this: even with the latest BBC versions, most people haven't heard of or watched this show.

2. I'd really disagree with point two as well -- I can't even count the number of books that operate on a direct emotional appeal. The one immediately leaping to mind is What Is The What, which is retelling the story of the boys who were trying to flee the Sudan in the early 90s, but that's hardly the only example of this.

No, I'm thinking that the relationship building may have a bit more to do with it.

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Meander

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from: [info]meandering
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 07:35 pm (UTC)
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I would definitely concur with the "relationship building" point. My main objections was to the point that people somehow are aware of the money spent on the written word versus moving images. I still think that numbers are part of it though. A lot of our friends have decent interests in books, but I know that I have a heightened interest in them over most of my friends and I certainly have more books than many of them. I think it takes a particular type of person to really get into books in a serious way.

Another point I've just thought of is that movies and TV show everything The sets are where things are happening, the actors are what the characters look and act like. With a book, one has to visualize everything whole cloth. I've never read a book that took the time to describe a room in the detail that one can get from looking at a room for a few seconds on the screen. It may be that the personal investment of "world-visualization" has something to do with the involvement. If you have to take some part in the creation of the entertainment, you are more apt to see yourself as "part" of it. For movies and TV, you mainly tend to watch and take everything in. You're sort of an outside observer, and can thus object to things with greater ease.

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Mari Ness

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from: [info]mariness
date: Oct. 21st, 2007 11:13 pm (UTC)
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I don't think people are necessarily consciously aware of the money aspect. In fact, I suspect they aren't -- but nonetheless, if you watch any television or movies at all, you can't help but hear the occasional mentions of budgets -- the cast of Friends getting $1 million per episode at one point, the $300 million spent on Spiderman, and so on, because this becomes part of the hype of the movies and the shows.

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